An open-marriage couple goes on the Dr. Phil Show
Daytime-TV psychologist Dr. Phil McGraw has been on the air for 10 years. He's known for bringing on screwups and losers and lecturing them about what they're doing wrong. He presents a strong family-first message and has a low opinion of open marriages. So today's guests, open-marriage advocates Carl and Kenya Stevens, were walking into a tough appearance.
On the other hand, the Stevenses weren't about to be the usual easy victims. They've had lots of media experience arguing for their way of life on BET, Fox News, the Michael Baisden radio show, and elsewhere.
How'd they do? I have a day job so I couldn't watch. The show isn't online anywhere I can find (link, anyone?). However, here's the show's official web page for today's episode (Feb. 23, 2012).
It offers a 1-minute promo in which Kenya and Dr. Phil try to out-interrupt each other. That's a losing game; he's the pro, and he writes the video editor's paycheck.
Another video clip they put on the page is an outtake of Kenya fetching lotion from someone to put on her legs, which makes her look self-centered.
The third and last video on the page is more serious. Dr. Phil "addresses Carl’s admission that he doesn’t always practice safe sex" due to Carl's notion that being fearless helps the body protect against STIs. Sadly, this woo-woo nonsense from Carl was in the public record for the show's researchers to discover, and for Dr. Phil to highlight on a big display board in Carl's face, the audience's, and ours. Kenya jumps in to try to divert the subject; Phil doesn't let her. Carl tries really, really hard to walk this one back and almost succeeds — but finally can't. I wanted to reach through the screen and strangle him for ever having talked up this awful piece of New Age crap. He walked nose-first into Dr. Phil's punch on this. (And thanks to Joreth for tipping us poly activists in advance to Carl's STD woo-woo problem.)
There are also two text links to long transcripts from the show, in which further text links to better video segments are buried a couple pages in. So the couple did get some chances to have their say — and here they look good when they get enough time to make a point.
Note: Hostile TV can really screw you over. Unlike radio or print, it can edit your message practically out of existence and still have plenty of stuff to make an engaging show. A TV host and editor also have a deeper bag of tricks to draw upon, and if they choose to use these against you, you literally cannot win. Of course, it doesn't help if you are already on record saying medically stupid nonsense in public.
For different takes, see John U's and Jasmine's comments below. They saw the whole show.
[Permalink]
On the other hand, the Stevenses weren't about to be the usual easy victims. They've had lots of media experience arguing for their way of life on BET, Fox News, the Michael Baisden radio show, and elsewhere.How'd they do? I have a day job so I couldn't watch. The show isn't online anywhere I can find (link, anyone?). However, here's the show's official web page for today's episode (Feb. 23, 2012).
It offers a 1-minute promo in which Kenya and Dr. Phil try to out-interrupt each other. That's a losing game; he's the pro, and he writes the video editor's paycheck.
Another video clip they put on the page is an outtake of Kenya fetching lotion from someone to put on her legs, which makes her look self-centered.
The third and last video on the page is more serious. Dr. Phil "addresses Carl’s admission that he doesn’t always practice safe sex" due to Carl's notion that being fearless helps the body protect against STIs. Sadly, this woo-woo nonsense from Carl was in the public record for the show's researchers to discover, and for Dr. Phil to highlight on a big display board in Carl's face, the audience's, and ours. Kenya jumps in to try to divert the subject; Phil doesn't let her. Carl tries really, really hard to walk this one back and almost succeeds — but finally can't. I wanted to reach through the screen and strangle him for ever having talked up this awful piece of New Age crap. He walked nose-first into Dr. Phil's punch on this. (And thanks to Joreth for tipping us poly activists in advance to Carl's STD woo-woo problem.)
There are also two text links to long transcripts from the show, in which further text links to better video segments are buried a couple pages in. So the couple did get some chances to have their say — and here they look good when they get enough time to make a point.
Note: Hostile TV can really screw you over. Unlike radio or print, it can edit your message practically out of existence and still have plenty of stuff to make an engaging show. A TV host and editor also have a deeper bag of tricks to draw upon, and if they choose to use these against you, you literally cannot win. Of course, it doesn't help if you are already on record saying medically stupid nonsense in public.
For different takes, see John U's and Jasmine's comments below. They saw the whole show.
[Permalink]
Labels: TV
32 Comments:
I saw the show, and Kenya didn't cut Phil a lot of slack, a bit overboard since the audience finally booed her for interrupting him. But I was happy to see how lively and well thought out most of what they had to say was.
Especially good were their comments on how they talked to their children. Right on! Carl made what I think is the single most important point which is tell children the truth or they will not come back to you for counsel when they really need it. Bravo!
Carl's std opinions were actually ok. He might have been better not to lead with the stuff about fear, but he did say it was important to have "the talk." And he advocated using condoms. And he's right, at some point you have to trust your partners to tell the truth and get tested.
I wasn't pleased that they used the term "progressive marriage" instead of polyamory, and at one point Kenya talked about making it up herself. It maybe that they did think it up on their own, but I'm sure they got clues, and a little research would have revealed the poly community. My guess is they are headed for a book and want to distinguish themselves from the poly books that are out there. They talk about doing relationship coaching professionally, I think.
John U
Thank you for posting this! I am Kenya and we did the show just a few weeks back that aired today.
Progressive Love is a list of four relationships principles we live by
1. No shame no blame 100%acceptance
2. No victims no villains 100%responsibility
3. No cop outs no drop outs 100%commitment
4. The purpose is growth, the benefit is love 100%understanding
So I did make this up. My husband and I, we enjoy creating paradigms for new love choices to stand upon.
I'm enjoying the ideas presented on the show and how they were presented. I've done national tv seven times plus have my own show beginning this fall on the Progressive Love concept which is useful foundational thought for all relationship formats.
We are not advocates of any one relationship format, but we do enjoy the world open rather than poly as it leaves room for all kinds of openness, not just one format.
We respect the polyamourous world and commend you for your courage to stand for something great for human kind! We'd also love it if you'd watch the show, feel with your heart and allow yourself to see that we too are on the forefront of one movement, it's called love.
To me marriage as it stands is inhumane as humans were born to love massively, everyone.
I'd love to field questions or to hear your comments, but to have the poly world feel slighted by our performance on the Phil show seems oddly oriented.
We are one with you. We are one with all. Love will save the day!
Bliss and Delight!
Kenya K Stevens
In solidarity and respect. xo
By the way, here is a link to my description of Progressive Love:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtupiJiNORg
Also you can catch our blog posts here http://jujumamablog.com
We love you!
Kenya K Stevens xoox
Hey Kenya, thanks for joining this conversation! I've seen you comment elsewhere, too; it's cool that you're so committed to spreading this message. Your principles seem pretty great to this individual.
I especially love your emphasis on acceptance, understanding, and growth, since some portrayals I've seen praised in poly webspace seem to erase differences that we should be celebrating (like the Valentine's day article about poly parenting that defined asexuals out of existence). That specific erasure seems like a huge problem because some monogamous relationships seem to follow the narrative that, in a marriage, the partners owe each other sex (as evidenced by laws only recently having changed to make that prosecutable). It sounds like anyone following your principles will take their partners as they are, taking responsibility for their choice to commit and knowing that, if our partners aren't meeting our needs, it's ultimately our responsibility to meet our own needs, not theirs.
If it seems that the reaction to your appearance on this show is negative, that's probably because one of the major functions of this specific blog (Alan, please correct me if I'm mischaracterizing your goals!) is to talk about how a given portrayal of non-monogamy is likely to influence popular opinions, and anything suggesting that non-mono folks aren't "safe" plays into narratives of promiscuity-as-disease-vector that are unjustly used to shame people for our choices. I don't know whether going on that particular show was a good choice (if you're taking "100% responsibility", then we can't just blame the editors if the way that this program showcased your appearance cast your message in a bad light that has negative consequences for how other people in non-monogamous situations might be perceived), but your message sounds really freeing, positive, and, yeah, truly progressive. Your four principles really seem to cover the bases, although I bet it takes most people a while to get practiced at embodying them. And, in line with what John U wrote: the important part isn't just what we do (as in, whether we use barriers or not) but whether we are honest with our partners and give them the truth they need to make their own safe choices. I bet that going on Dr. Phil's show also let you reach a lot of people who might not have heard your message otherwise.
I guess that the only thing that worries me is "no drop outs": if someone is in an abusive situation, not being given the acceptance, understanding, and support that they deserve, then it can sometimes an emphasis on commitment can make it extra hard to see that leaving is the right choice. Abuse is a psychologically complicated situation. Of course, nobody following your principles will be abusive, but from inside a relationship that's already abusive, it can be hard to see what's really happening -- and some people have other good reasons for staying. I'm speaking from experience. As a relationship coach, have you encountered any couples in which one partner was being abused and didn't recognize what was happening or took that "100% responsibility" to mean, "I'm to blame for the way my partner chooses to treat me"?
Thanks for your positivity, Kenya! I know it sounds like a naive idea these days, but with attitudes like this, maybe we can change the world.
Alan, are you sure that it was appropriate to use such violent language in this post? It's your blog, not mine, but it seems that talking about wanting to strangle Carl is an inconsiderate way to express frustration. I mean, he's a real person. Carl might even be reading this right now -- should we be burning bridges or building them?
Again, this is your webspace, not mine. It's just that I'm a member of the poly community, too, and I wish that you were being a credit to our community by expressing your legitimate, understandable frustration in a more compassionate way -- perhaps by focusing on the reasons for that emotion rather than by focusing on the reaction itself.
Lovers of themselves! Values, where are they? Why even get married if you want to have an open marriage? You would not have to worry about ashy legs if you had used some lotion before you got in the chair mixed with baby oil or if you wore pantyhose, you knew you were coming on national tv. Kenya you talked so much, the men in your life seemed pretty spineless. No one could or would shut you up. You appeared to me to be selfish and that your rearing of your children is more about YOU and what you want and not what they need to be productive individuals in society. After all if they accept you and what you want to do, then that is all that really matters to you. It's easy to do what you all are doing with multiple partners, players do it everyday, why get married to live a players life style? You have been through a lot in your life and I believe you have brought some of it upon yourself with your "open" lifestyle. You should try listening to someone for a change. You talked SO MUCH! SO MUCH! It seemed like you were defending your actions more so then anything. So what you went to Howard University, I would think you would have learned something there that would have made you look less foolish on national television from going to such a well known HBC. I also felt like there were some insecurities in all of you involved in this "circle" of adultery. You are asking your children to think like adults and process this information like adults when they are children and this type of rushed maturity can lead to some dangerous results. OMG you would not SHUT UP! That tells me that you think you are the only one that can explain this messy web you weave or make it make sense. Wrong! It's senseless. Sex is not sacred, marriage is! You all have invited others into your marriage bed and there is nothing good that can come from that! Jealousy can be cruel as the grave! The real challenge is keeping one partner satisfied. You looked intelligent, but the more you TALKED, the more you looked less intelligent and selfish.
I hope someone can talk to you because you appear to be the one justifying all of this. I think if anyone disagrees with you, you can become dangerously argumentative.
@Cookie,
> OMG you would not SHUT UP!
> ...You looked intelligent, but
> the more you TALKED, the more
> you looked less intelligent
> and selfish.... I think if
> anyone disagrees with you,
> you can become dangerously
> argumentative.
Going on an interrupt-y show like Dr. Phil, your only chance is to argue loud and hard and counter-interrupt. You see this on the political shows -- they all yell at each other because anyone who doesn't gets squashed. Dr. Phil is famous as a fast, interrupty, subject-changing host, and she clearly planned her strategy in advance. I guess she overdid it, but ANY strategy on that show was probably going to be a losing strategy.
I just finished watching the replay of this episode. I personally see many flaws in this arrangement, but to each his own, and more power and happiness to all involved. The two problems I have is 1. involvement of the children at such a young age. My mother sat me down and explained the realities of sex, sexuality and relationships - based on her life experiences. This however, was done without the visual aid of xx tapes.Secondly, the outright disrespect - mind you you tried very hard to disguise it with slowed speech and a smile- to Carl's mother. You need to celebrate your love and lifestyle but please note the old adage - empty vessels make the most noise.
Oxytosin,
Thanks for your comments. I will respond to the No Drop Out principle of Progressive Love. Sure we have had clients existing in abusive relationships. We always suggest they find safe shelter for themselves as they seek guidance from coaches on the matters that create the abuse in the relationship, this we do not consider dropping out, but getting into a safe space to work through various issues.
If a woman or man is attracting abuse, he or she has to contemplate the reasons for it. Was mother abused thus she expects and creates it, is she mentally abusive or lacking in feminine energy? What is bringing on the abuse she is creating? Same for him, whether the abuser or the abused (which in and of itself are not relevant words, these are experiences that we create, in those situations neither is victim or villains, it is as it has been created and both are responsible for shifting it). He too must ask himself, why am I violent, was my father violent, what do I need to work out of my character in order to work in something more suitable in handling challenges? This work can be done apart. If one party is not willing to do this work, and the other partner is, the the unwilling partner will be lifted out of one's life. There will be no drop out, when we are working on ourselves in given scenarios, the universe rearranges itself on our behalf and we are instantly "rescued". We don't have to force a drop out... all we have to do is find the ways we are creating all things.
Just as I created the happenings on the Dr. Phil Show. I created the environment of defense by expecting before I came that the environment was going to be a battle. That was my choice, my frame of reference, my fears and my own misunderstandings. I take 100% responsibility for what occurred not he show, my lack of discernment, my lack of diplomacy. I own it fully and in this way I create the next experience with the learning I received here and life goes on.
This happens in relationships all the time. A scenario occurs, it doesn't feel good, we don't like it. But instead of blaming anything outside the self. And even instead of blaming self, we simply reach for the moral to the story, the valuable lesson we can extract from it and we go forward and try again next time.
In this case I apologized to Dr. Phil on my blog this morning http://jujumamablog.com but in the next case I will have developed myself beyond creating defensive stages where battles ensue. I actually surprised myself! I have bee on national TV many times and never have I anticipated thus created something so firey!
Feel free to check my YouTUbe channel for those other appearances. http://youtube.com/user/hakashaut
I love you each and adore your comments. Life is for the living! We are always perfectly situated to attain our dreams, live our destinies and drive our powerful missions.
In solidarity!
kenya k stevens xoxoxoxo
PS. I have nothing to say about the matter of the children. My children are brilliant! I love that they get to see us create a ripple and live as we choose. Humans are smart enough, creative enough and have the inalienable right to live as we choose. At least my children will know this!
Atleast they didn't say they were CHRISTIANS!!! Fill sorry the Children>.....
An Abomination! Sickening. No protection condoms, reckless, and careless... There should be a jail sentence imposed. Not to mention trifling. His wife, is disrespectful, and has no regard for the word.
A couple of people here have asked why anyone would get married if they want to be nonmonogamous. It's one of the most common questions we polyamory spokespeople hear, along with the accusation that we want to have our cake and eat it, too, as if that's an unreasonable desire. I guess to them it just doesn't seem fair since they are following the rules and we aren't.
I can answer this personally as my primary partner of six years and I are newlyweds, having married in December and omitted by intention the phrase "foresaking all others" from our wedding vows. We want the same pair bonded, loving relationship and level of life-long commitment that most who consciously choose to marry want. AND, we also want individual autonomy and see no reason why, as long as our spouse is in agreement, we can't have it so long as all involved are consenting adults. There is a lot of love to go around, and we are skilled at sharing it outside our relationship while still maintaining our commitment to our marriage and each other.
Once people understand that despite our cultural conditioning, commitment does not necessarily equal or require exclusivity, they begin to better understand why this all might actually be OK. We are fidelitious to our partners in that we live up to our commitments to them and renegotiate those commitments if we find that we cannot. We choose to conduct our relationships this way and to better respect our spouses in doing so instead of cheating on them by having intimate relationships with others that they don't know about. In doing so we establish and maintain a deep level of trust that is much less likely to be violated than in traditional marriages where cheating is going on - and we all know how high the numbers are as to that.
Many people assume that jealousy is a dealbreaker, but it doesn't have to be. What we've learned is that it's a human reaction that we can learn to manage or even eliminate when we see that our spouses and partners continue to love us and to do what they say they will do no matter who else they may also love.
I haven't had a chance yet to watch this, but based on what I'm reading, I'll share some thoughts as a spokesperson on nonmonogamous relationships and polyamory specifically.
Kenya and Carl are courageous to agree to go up against Dr. Phil, just as was similarly true of author Jenny Block's willingness to go on Bill O'Reilly and into a few other similarly hostile situations. It's a very personal decision to accept such invitations, yet by accepting them we spokespeople also take on a significant amount of responsibility. Our words can have far-reaching consequences for members of our community. This responsibility MUST be taken seriously if we are to benefit and not harm others who live as we do. Otherwise, what’s the point of doing it?
For several years Dr. Phil's producers repeatedly asked we poly community spokespeople to provide people to appear on the show, and we consistently declined. It's the listeners who have open minds we would be trying to reach, but there was reason for concern that not enough of our message would make it into the final cut to outweigh all the ways in which we would be made to look bad. I won't have an opinion about how it turned out in this case until I get to watch the video (soon.)
As to Alan's strong reaction to Carl's words about justifications made for not practicing safer sex, though I might have chosen different words than Alan did, I share his frustration. We spokespeople can't afford the luxury of making highly controversial statements on subjects such as STI prevention, especially on national television, if our truth gives the impression that we - and by implication, those like us - are being irresponsible. I've seen others do this sort of thing under the notion that they must speak their truth no matter what. Serving our personal interest at the expense of those who are like us pretty much disqualifies us as effective leaders and spokespeople. Honesty is important, but avoiding needlessly creating negative impressions is even more important considering the responsibility we take on when we speak to large audiences. Isn't the point that we want our words to have a positive impact? Why would we choose to make statements that would undermine that goal? It's terribly counterproductive to let this happen when in fact what we have to share is a message of just how ethical and healthy responsible nonmonogamy can actually be. We do neither ourselves nor our communities service by playing into the hands of our critics.
I already know that I share many of Kendra and Carl's values, and I am grateful for their courage and especially for their lending a voice to this subject from people of color. I applaud their commitment to self-determination and the example they set for others to create the family life and responsible relationships that best meet their needs. Let's also remember that, as author Pamela Haag refers to us in her recent book "Marriage Confidential," those living a consenting and openly nonmonogamous life are renegade couples blazing a trail for others to follow. This is no more true for anyone than it is for those of us who stick our necks out into the line of fire to raise awareness and counter misconceptions. We are all learning as we go, and we are all in this together. I and I'm pretty sure many other polyamory spokespeople would be happy to collaborate with Carl and Kendra in this regard and learn from each others' experiences.
Where are all these Christian antis coming from?
I saw the show. I was surprised at how well it went, because I've seen Dr. Phil run roughshod over many a guest, "fixing" them. I quit watching him as a result.
Today's guests didn't let Dr. Phil do that to them, primarily because of Kenya's strength. It was an astonishing Dr. Phil episode. I'm a little surprised that they aired it, since Dr. Phil didn't have the control he usually has. The look on Dr. Phil's face was priceless. Congrats to Dr. Phil for airing the show.
BTW, the Dr. Phil show contacted me many months ago with an invitation to talk with them about appearing. I declined; see Anita's comments about the poly community refusing to work with them. I'm very glad that people with the strength to hold their own on the stage with Dr. Phil agreed to do so.
I do hope that Kenya and Carl will stay in touch with polyamory leadership. Having had successful media events, they have ideas to offer. At the same time polys doing media have ideas to offer.
Polyamory Media Association would be one avenue of connection.
While I completely agree that the work to end abusive relationship can only be done apart, I have real problems with the idea that a women "is attracting abuse" particularly because she is "lacking in feminine energy". Even if you reject the word victim, it is still victim blaming.
Even outside of this context I have huge problems with gender essentialism, or gender-role essentialism. I don't think any female should ever be told she is "lacking in feminine energy" nor any male ever be told he is "lacking in masculine energy". Non-normtive gender roles are something to be celebrated, not degredated, as they help others escape the trap of preforming a roles that are not ever actually chosen.
Bitsy, I agree with you 100% and it is one of the main problems I have with Steven's philosophy.
I would like to be more supportive, especially since I feel we are starved for more alternative relationship models in the black community but I can't abide woo-woo and psycho-babble.
Why are people on a poly blog complaining about open marriage? So strange.
@cookie
You are saying its easy to have multiple partners. You don't know what you are talking about. It takes a lot of work and communication. You have have asserted that nothing good can come from an open marriage. You have no experience with this, and pretty much any statement that is that strongly worded is false. Some marriages and some relationships go badly, regardless of whether they are open. Some go well. Perhaps you should read more about this (I don't feel like explaining how and why open marriage works). I hear opening up is a good book.
In any case, I doubt that you know what you are trying to accomplish by yelling at Kenya on this blog. I don't think you will change anyone's mind that way, especially when we have evidence contrary to what you are saying.
> Why are people on a poly blog
> complaining about open
> marriage? So strange.
I think the show prompted a lot of google searches by general viewers, and some of them landed here.
@Bitsy
I didn't say that the woman is attracting "abuse" due to lack of feminine energy. I said she is attracting abuse and must root out the cause, whatever it may be.
Here is a example. I am an African America woman. If people are treating me badly, I may blame it on racism. However, this will not end the bad treatment. Even if I leave one set of people, I will find this behavior in another set.
It won't be until I find the thought pattern in me that attract the treatment that I will end the treatment once and for all.
I am never treated badly by any race of people, and that is because I ended the thought dynamic long ago that I can be treated badly due to my race. I replaced that thought genome with the idea that all people treat me well.
Same for a woman dealing with abuse. She has to find the thought genome. This isn't blaming herself, this is taking 100% responsibility for her life and thoughts which produce the reality spreading before her.
Is that more clear?
I appreciate this discussion! Thanks so much. Again this is Kenya from the show... I just replied to Bitsy and now I reply to you each.
We have a shifting landscape before us. We can do this. We don't have to find fault in anything at anytime, our perspective is but a glimpse into who we think we are.
As for me, I know I am pure love walking. I may have over reacted on the Phil Show for which I've written an apology on my blog http://jujumamablog.com however, I know that everything went perfectly, and thou who desperately needed to hear what was heard, got the message.
We have to be ready. There are millions headed our way. We can take them in and comfort them, support them in adopting a new way. It's up to us. We can stand in solidarity or we can continue the fear based, segregation thinking. I chose the former.
I love you each... xoxo
Kenya K Stevens
Holy flying new-age nonsense.
Sorry to burst your bubble, Kenya, but the thought that everybody creates, with their thought, the reality they live in is the sort of higher-order bullshit that only well-off and relatively secure first-world people can believe in.
Take the women who get married as children to some rich bastard who's going to rape them. Take the millions of people starving world-wide. It's all their own fault for not thinking the right way???
Sorry for the harsh words, everybody, but that's just plain inhuman elitist crap.
Wow. The depth of emotion in the comments section here is incredible.
I'm also suprised at how off-topic people seemed to get -- spousal abuse? child abuse? WTF?
I don't necessarily agree with everything Kenya has written here, but her 4 principles are food for thought, and really well condensed versions of tenets that much of the poly community already espouse. I did not misconstrue "no drop outs" to mean an abused wife can't leave her abusive husband. I took it to mean that if you see the going get tough, don't run away -- communicate!
As for victim blaming -- what Kenya is describing is the victim cycle. Victims of **ongoing** abuse are caught in a cycle that they do have the power to change (and this includes battered wives and child-brides who grow up, I can speak authoritatively on this having been both). This is a sick system that can broken/healed through empowement and education. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karpman_drama_triangle
I can understand irritation with Carl's lack of public responsibility regarding STD protection, but sheesh. Who among you has had safe sex 100% of the time no matter what (honestly?). If you are without sin, cast your stones, I guess. But otherwise if you don't like it, why don't you go on Dr. Phil and talk about how freaking perfect you are?
As for the vehemence toward the new-age aspect of this philosphy, since when did new-agey type stuff start offending people? smurfix, your comment was ridiculous. Reality is absolutely a creation of id -- perception is the end-all, be-all of existance buddy. You can't know my experience any more than I know yours. As for creating reality using your mind, well that's an oversimplification of what Kenya's practicing, but I'm sure you only oversimplified it to make it easier for you to mock it. In reality, it's called theoretical quantum physics. It's science. The act of applying theoretical quantum phsyics in our individual lives and in our communities is called Quantum Activism (http://www.amitgoswami.org/). And it came out of the third world (India) so it's not just first-world bullshit, but actually a merging of ancient philosophies with modern scientific discovery. Pretty cool stuff actually (if you believe in science).
Sorry, but no dice.
She specificlly said that it's the "thought genome" that creates the abuse.
That's nonsense, sorry. Does an infant who is abused by their parents have such a thought genome -- or where specifically do you draw the line?
Does anybody seriously think that each and every one of the 1/2 to 1 million Tutsi people in Rwanda who got slaughtered 20 years ago just had Wrong Thoughts in their head? Or the Jews in Germany, 50 years before that?
Yeah, I'm offended. Sorry for the harsh words, but apparently nobody who reads this does any serious thinking about the real-world implication of what they're reading.
One other thing. Whether you do activism or not is your choice, but don't call it Quantum Anything and don't refer to a web site which boasts credentials such as appearing in the What The Bleep excuse of a movie. That's not science. That's (more) new-age nonsense.
There is a very simple definition of reality, which I happen to subscribe to. Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away.
So, they are very lucky.
Poor children, poor grandmother, poor Howard University graduates and/or employees, poor future victims of your children!
I hope Mom & Dad are HAPPY HAPPY! Yourselfness is unmeasurable and this is nothing more than a reflection of it!
Anyone involved in this is of course going to be labeled as a tainted creation!!! Please don't let your children follow your mistakes
I just viewed this explosive episode of the Dr. Phil Show. This comment is just to say thank you to Kenya for being true to yourself. So many women are in the very same situation which you are with a husband and one or two other partners, only they are being deceitful about it. I lived that life in my first marriage of 27 years. Lots of guilt, shame and confusion. Especially with the way I was raised and the religion which I am a part of. I have come to understand that God is love and He loves us enough to bring us through our course of life. I have been blessed to remarry a man that is able to fulfill every area for which I longed. Emotionally, Physically and Spiritually. I no longer have thoughts or desires for other partners. We are very honest and open and understanding of one another. I admire your strength and some of the challenges which you have faced. the cancer, homelessness after your home burned down, and the everyday ridicule of judgemental people. I would be very interested to know more about your physical and inner healing and meditation practices.
---Continue to Love and Be Love!!
Bless you my dear Sister!!!
If Kenya if you think Marriage is inhumane why would you even have a wedding and go through all of the trouble of getting a marriage certificate that legally binds you to one person? You might as well be single and live your life as a sinner. Clearly you have some type of daddy complex and you are acting it out through sex with multiple people. Hopefully one day you will screw your way to the core of your issues. I just have one question if you and your husband had never introduced this lifestyle to your children at this age, do you honestly think this is something that they would be asking you about? Just something to think about.
The show with Kenya & Carl just RE-aired yesterday. Twice I have been treated to its mind-blowing foolishness!
I want to start off by saying that I have not made up my mind about polyamory. As I stand right now, I know that it is probably not for me, but I can see how it may work for others who are like-minded. That being said, I would hope that those of you who are genuine advocates for the lifestyle would not embrace this cuckoo couple as a representation of your efforts. I realize they are preaching “Progressive Love” and not “polyamory”, but let’s call a spade a spade – it’s essentially the same concept. They just thought it needed a fancy new title with some numbered rules.
Kenya, sweet baby, you are operating through such a ridiculous mask it makes me want to hug you and stroke your head and say, “Shhh, baby, stop talking, it’s ok now, it’s gonna be alright, shhhhh…”. You look like you have a raging volcano waiting to erupt underneath the fake and forced smiles. Your condescending, over-enunciated tone, ending with a slight cock of the head and maniacal smile is so sad it makes me wonder what pain has got you here. This weird persona you’ve created is not who you are, it’s who you are forcing yourself to be for some inner need you are trying desperately to fill or conceived weakness you are trying to cover up. If you keep pushing down whatever emotion it is you are trying to squash with the “happy” squint of your eyes and Joker-like grin, you are sure to completely explode one day. Bless your sweet heart when that day comes.
Carl, I feel so sorry for your Mama, because she obviously tried her best in raising you, but you are being bamboozled in trying to bring happiness to this hurting wife of yours. You know in your heart that this isn’t what you believe. You can almost hear your inner dialogue saying, “What’s that you’re saying, Kenya? You think so? Ok, ok, I can get on board with that. No, no, you’re right, it does make sense! I never thought of it that way before! And what about this too? No? Oh, sorry. Tell me again what I believe?”, knowing full well in the core of your belief system that you’re pushing the limitations of what you really feel. But, of course, I’m sure Kenya will just reassure you that it is normal for a pioneer to have that kind of doubt when creating a new mantra, a new way of life that is different from what our parents so cruelly planted in our robot minds. Especially your Mama (who Kenya so brutally disrespected), who I am guessing made Carl grow up in a divorced home? I admit, I’m just guessing on that one, because she kept brutally throwing the negative burdens suffered by children of divorce in her face rather than answer questions about how YOUR children were being affected by YOUR choices. It’s like Kenya felt that your Mom had no right to be concerned for YOUR children when she so “carelessly” made decisions on behalf of her own. Well that’s just silly. That clearly misses the point.
You have both obviously gone through some serious heartache, as you mentioned some of the horrible things that happened to you. My heart goes out to you for those things. I can see that this new “project” of yours is what seems to be allowing you to feel powerful amidst crushing blows, so I guess from that perspective, I don’t blame you. I just feel like the fall back down to earth some day is going to be a doozey. I wish you both real strength when that happens, not this silly, new-age, contrived positivity you are spewing. Although, when you decide to divorce because you can’t sustain this level of craziness, I can also hear the phony, self-empowering words coming out of your mouth claiming “This is how it is meant to BE, it is our path to happiness – we WANT this for one another. We are supporting each other in this new RE-ASSIGNMENT of our RELATIONSHIP ARRANGEMENT, blah, blah, blah….” (all spoken with just enough dynamic “preach” in it to sound like you know what you’re talking about). Good luck to you and your family, you’re gonna need it!
Guess what y'all...some of y'all commentators need to get over yourselves...people are not obligated to live by Your rules or set of "morals"
5 years later, Kenya and Carl are still very much married. Their children are more than healthy, young humans with brilliant minds.. One is off to college, one is a growing leader within her school and one is a dedicated gymnast.
All three fully supported by their parents, and in some cases, their parents other partners....and they all live happily, ever, after Amen.
I'm late to this article nut saw the Dr. Phil show firnthe 2nd time today. Monogomy is for me but I am completely comfortable with the fact that it is not for everyone. I was disappointed with the lack of respect shown the poly-advocate couple on the show. The audience was permitted to be vocally rude to them in a way that I do not recall seeing before..
Mother's who turned blind eyes to their children's molestation have been treated with far less audience hostility. Since show controls the audience, it really highlighted the negative spin of the show...I like the show but have to say "boo" to Dr
Phil on this one. The couple deserves respect!
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